Once again I am asking for your assistance. Years ago you helped me build my 1st PC. It is time to upgrade. Included pictures of battle station and other questions.
Hi everyone. My build is starting to show its age. The more I try to do, the more I see its age. at the bottom of the post you can see my current build. What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better.
Video/Picture Editing (Adobe Suite)
Streaming, Gaming (FPS/Action 1st player games)
killing time on Reddit, programming
If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, framerate, game settings)
Screen resolution: Was thinking 4K, but I saw this youtube video that said 4K monitors are not worth it.
Refresh rate: Want the best available. But also know I am very ignorant. 240hz?
Game settings: Would like to get the best looking game possible.
What is your budget (ballpark is okay)?
$1800 + $1200 (stimulus check...maybe if it ever gets here) = $3000
I also need to buy new monitors. so budget needs to account for that.
The rules had a link to this post about future proofing. Is that still the case. It is about 9 years old. Should I just build something every two years and buy cheap parts? That seems so wasteful.
I hate my current monitors. See pic for the reason. I need help picking a monitor. I do know that I want a widescreen. Just don't know if two or one is the dream setup. MUST WORK WITH MOUNT ARM
Corona Virus and its affect on the market. Some said that prices would go down. Others say it will go up. My hope is to have a prototype ready, and if there is a sale, I can snatch it up.
With my old parts once I upgrade. What does everyone do with them? Do you make a server? use your old graphics card to mine for bitcoin? I need Ideas. Might just build my wifey a computer with my old parts.
The date was June 10, 2018. The sun was shining, the grass was growing, and the birds were singing. At least, that’s what I assumed. Being a video game and tech obsessed teenager, I was indoors, my eyes glued to my computer monitor like a starving lion spying on a plump gazelle. I was watching the E3 (Electronic Entertainment Expo) 2018 broadcast on twitch.com, a popular streaming website. Video game developers use E3 as an annual opportunity to showcase any upcoming video game projects to the public. So far, the turnout had been disappointing. Much to my disappointment, multiple game developers failed to unveil anything of actual sustenance for an entire two hours. A graphical update here, a bug fix there. Issues that should have been fixed at every game’s initial launch, not a few months after release. Feeling hopeless, I averted my eyes from my computer monitor to check Reddit (a social media app/website) if there were any forum posts that I had yet to see. But then, I heard it. The sound of music composer Mick Gordon’s take on the original “DooM” theme, the awesome combination of metal and electronic music. I looked up at my screen and gasped. Bethesda Softworks and id software had just announced “DOOM: Eternal”, the fifth addition in the “DooM” video game series. “DOOM: Eternal” creative director Hugo Martin promised that the game would feel more powerful than it’s 2016 predecessor, there would be twice as many enemy types, and the doom community would finally get to see “hell on earth”. (Martin) As a fan of “DOOM (2016)”, I was ecstatic. The original “DooM” popularized the “First Person Shooter (FPS)” genre, and I wished I wouldn’t have to wait to experience the most recent entry in the series. “DOOM(1993)” was a graphical landmark when it originally released, yet nowadays it looks extremely dated, especially compared to “DOOM: Eternal”. What advancements in computer technology perpetuated this graphical change? Computers became faster, digital storage increased, and computer peripherals were able to display higher resolution and refresh rates. “DooM” 1993 graphics example: 📷(Doom | Doom Wiki) “DOOM: Eternal” graphics example: 📷 (Bailey) In their video “Evolution Of DOOM”, the video game YouTube Channel “gameranx” says that on December 10, 1993, a file titled “DOOM1_0.zip” was uploaded on the File Transfer Protocol (FTP) server of the University of Wisconsin. This file, two megabytes in size, contained the video game “DooM” created by the game development group “id Software”. (Evolution of DOOM) While not the first game in the “First Person Shooter” (FPS) genre, “DooM” popularized the genre, to the point of any other FPS game being referred to as a “Doom Clone” until the late 1990s. (Doom clones | Doom Wiki) The graphics of the original “DooM” is definitely a major downgrade compared to today’s graphical standards, but keep in mind that the minimum system requirements of “DooM”, according to the article “Doom System Requirements” on gamesystemrequirements.com, was eight megabytes of ram, an Intel Pentium or AMD (Advanced Micro Devices) Athlon 486 processor cycling at sixty-six megahertz or more, and an operating system that was Windows 95 or above. (Doom System Requirements) In case you don’t speak the language of technology (although I hope you learn a thing or two at the end of this essay), the speed and storage capacity is laughable compared to the specifications of today. By 1993, the microprocessor, or CPU (Central Processing Unit) had been active for the past twenty-two years after replacing the integrated circuit in 1971, thanks to the creators of the microprocessor, Robert Noyce and Gordon Moore who were also the founder of CPU manufacturer “Intel”. Gordon Moore also created “Moore’s law”, which states “The number of transistors incorporated in a chip will approximately double every 24 months”. (Moore) Sadly, according to writer and computer builder Steve Blank in his article “The End of More - The Death of Moore’s Law”, this law would end at around 2005, thanks to the basic laws of physics. (Blank) 1993 also marked an important landmark for Intel, who just released the first “Pentium” processor which was capable of a base clock of 60 MHz (megahertz). The term “base clock” refers to the default speed of a CPU. This speed can be adjusted via the user’s specifications, and “MHz” refers to one million cycles per second. A cycle is essentially one or more problems that the computer solves. The more cycles the CPU is running at, the more problems get solved. Intel would continue upgrading their “Pentium” lineup until January 4, 2000 when they would release the “Celeron” processor, with a base clock of 533 MHz. Soon after, on June 19, 2000, rival CPU company AMD would release their “Duron” processor which had a base clock of 600 MHz, with a maximum clock of 1.8 GHz (Gigahertz). One GHz is equal to 1,000 MHz. Intel and AMD had established themselves as the two major CPU companies in the 1970s in Silicon Valley. Both companies had been bitter rivals since then, trading figurative blows in the form of competitive releases, discounts, and “one upmanship” to this day. Moving on to April 21, 2005 when AMD released the first dual-core CPU, the “Athlon 64 X2 3800+”. The notable feature of this CPU, besides a 2.0 GHz base clock and a 3.8 maximum clock, was that it was the first CPU to have two cores. A CPU core is a CPU’s processor. The more cores a CPU has, the more tasks it can perform per cycle, thus maximizing it’s efficiency. Intel wouldn’t respond until January 9, 2006, when they released their dual-core processor, the “Core 2 Duo Processor E6320”, with a base clock of 1.86 GHz. (Computer Processor History) According to tech entrepreneur Linus Sebastian in his YouTube videos “10 Years of Gaming PCs: 2009 - 2014 (Part 1)” and “10 Years of Gaming PCs: 2015 - 2019 (Part 2)”, AMD would have the upper hand over Intel until 2011, when Intel released the “Sandy Bridge” CPU microarchitecture, which was faster and around the same price as AMD’s current competing products. (Sebastian) The article “What is Microarchitecture?” on the website Computer Hope defines microarchitecture as “a hardware implementation of an ISA (instruction set architecture). An ISA is a structure of commands and operations used by software to communicate with hardware. A microarchitecture is the hardware circuitry that implements one particular ISA”. (What is Microarchitecture?) Microarchitecture is also referred to as what generation a CPU belongs to. Intel would continue to dominate the high-end CPU market until 2019, when AMD would “dethrone” Intel with their third generation “Ryzen” CPU lineup. The most notable of which being the “Ryzen 3950x”, which had a total of sixteen cores, thirty-two threads, a base clock of 3.5 GHz, and a maximum clock of 4.7 GHz. (Sebastian) The term “thread” refers to splitting one core into virtual cores, via a process known as “simultaneous multithreading”. Simultaneous multithreading allows one core to perform two tasks at once. What CPU your computer has is extremely influential for how fast your computer can run, but for video games and other types of graphics, there is a special type of processor that is designed specifically for the task of “rendering” (displaying) and generating graphics. This processor unit is known as the graphics processing unit, or “GPU”. The term “GPU” wasn’t used until around 1999, when video cards started to evolve beyond the literal generation of two-dimensional graphics and into the generation of three-dimensional graphics. According to user “Olena” in their article “A Brief History of GPU”, The first GPU was the “GeForce 256”, created by GPU company “Nvidia'' in 1999. Nvidia promoted the GeForce 256 as “A single-chip processor with integrated transform, lighting, triangle setup/clipping, and rendering engines that is capable of processing a minimum of 10 million polygons per second”. (Olena) Unlike the evolution of CPUs, the history of GPUs is more one sided, with AMD playing a game of “catchup” ever since Nvidia overtook AMD in the high-end GPU market in 2013. (Sebastian) Fun fact, GPUs aren’t used only for gaming! In 2010, Nvidia collaborated with Audi to power the dashboards and increase the entertainment and navigation systems in Audi’s cars! (Olena) Much to my (and many other tech enthusiasts), GPUs would increase dramatically in price thanks to the “bitcoin mania” around 2017. This was, according to senior editor Tom Warren in his article “Bitcoin Mania is Hurting PC Gamers By Pushing Up GPU Prices'' on theverge.com, around an 80% increase in price for the same GPU due to stock shortages. (Warren) Just for context, Nvidia’s “flagship” gpu in 2017 was the 1080ti, the finest card of the “pascal” microarchitecture. Fun fact, I have this card. The 1080ti launched for $699, with the specifications of a base clock of 1,481 MHz, a maximum clock of 1,582 MHz, and 11 gigabytes of GDDR5X Vram (Memory that is exclusive to the GPU) according to the box it came in. Compare this to Nvidia’s most recent flagship GPU, the 2080ti of Nvidia’s followup “Turing” microarchitecture, another card I have. This GPU launched in 2019 for $1,199. The 2080ti’s specifications, according to the box it came in included a base clock of 1,350 MHz, a maximum clock of 1,545 MHz, and 11 gigabytes of GDDR6 Vram. A major reason why “DooM” was so popular and genius was how id software developer John Carmack managed to “fake” the three-dimensional graphics without taking up too much processing power, hard drive space, or “RAM” (Random access memory), a specific type of digital storage. According to the article “RAM (Random Access Memory) Definition” on the website TechTerms, Ram is also known as “volatile” memory, because it is much faster than normal storage (which at the time took the form of hard-drive space), and unlike normal storage, only holds data when the computer is turned on. A commonly used analogy is that Ram is the computer’s short-term memory, storing temporary files to be used by programs, while hard-drive storage is the computer’s long term memory. (RAM (Random Access Memory) Definition) As I stated earlier, in 1993, “DooM” required 8 megabytes of ram to run. For some context, as of 2020, “DOOM: Eternal” requires a minimum of 8 gigabytes of DDR4 (more on this later) ram to run, with most gaming machines possessing 16 gigabytes of DDR4 ram. According to tech journalist Scott Thornton in his article “What is DDR (Double Data Rate) Memory and SDRAM Memory”, in 1993, the popular format of ram was “SDRAM”. “SDRAM” stands for “Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory”. SDRAM differs from its predecessor, “DRAM” (Dynamic Random Access Memory) by being synchronized with the clock speed of the CPU. DRAM was asynchronous (not synchronized by any external influence), which “posted a problem in organizing data as it comes in so it can be queued for the process it’s associated with”. SDRAM was able to transfer data one time per clock cycle, and it’s replacement in the early 2000s, “DDR SDRAM” (Dual Data Rate Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory) was able to transfer data two times per clock cycle. This evolution of ram would continue to this day. In 2003, DDR2 SDRAM was released, able to transfer four pieces of data per clock cycle. In 2007, DDR3 SDRAM was able to transfer eight pieces of data per clock cycle. In 2014, DDR4 SDRAM still was able to transfer eight pieces of data per cycle, but the clock speed had increased by 600 MHz, and the overall power consumption had been reduced from 3.3 volts for the original SDRAM to 1.2 volts for DDR4. (Thornton)The digital size of each “ram stick” (a physical stick of ram that you would insert into your computer) had also increased, from around two megabytes per stick, to up to 128 gigabytes per stick (although this particular option will cost you around $1,000 per stick depending on the manufacturer) in 2020, although the average stick size is 8 gigabytes. For the average computer nowadays, you can insert up to four ram sticks, although for more high-end systems, you can insert up to sixteen or even thirty-two! Rewind back to 1993, where the original “DooM” took up two megabytes of storage, not to be confused with ram. According to tech enthusiast Rex Farrance in their article “Timeline: 50 Years of Hard Drives”, the average computer at this time had around two gigabytes of storage. Storage took the form of magnetic-optical discs, a combination of the previous magnetic discs and optical discs. (Farrance) This format of storage is still in use today, although mainly for large amounts of rarely used data, while data that is commonly used by programs (including the operating system) is put on solid-state drives, or SSDs. According to tech journalist Keith Foote in their article “A Brief History of Data Storage”, SSDs differed from the HDD by being much faster and smaller, storing data on a flash memory chip, not unlike a USB thumb drive. While SSDs had been used as far back as 1950, they wouldn’t find their way into the average gaming machine until the early 2010s. (Foote) A way to think about SSDs is common knowledge. It doesn’t contain every piece of information you know, it just contains what you use on a daily basis. For example, my computer has around 750 gigabytes of storage in SSDs, and around two terabytes of internal HDD storage. On my SSDs, I have my operating system, my favorite programs and games, and any files that I use frequently. On my HDD, I have everything else that I don’t use on a regular basis. “DOOM: Eternal” would release on March 20, 2020, four months after it’s original release date on November 22, 2019. And let me tell you, I was excited. The second my clock turned from 11:59 P.M. to 12:00 A.M., I repeatedly clicked my refresh button, desperately waiting to see the words “Coming March 20” transform into the ever so beautiful and elegant phrase: “Download Now”. At this point in time, I had a monitor that was capable of displaying roughly two-million pixels spread out over it’s 27 inch display panel, at a rate of 240 times a second. Speaking of monitors and displays, according to the article “The Evolution of the Monitor” on the website PCR, at the time of the original “DooM” release, the average monitor was either a CRT (cathode ray tube) monitor, or the newer (and more expensive) LCD (liquid crystal display) monitor. The CRT monitor was first unveiled in 1897 by the German physicist Karl Ferdinand Braun. CRT monitors functioned by colored cathode ray tubes generating an image on a phosphorescent screen. These monitors would have an average resolution of 800 by 600 pixels and a refresh rate of around 30 frames per second. CRT monitors would eventually be replaced by LCD monitors in the late 2000s. LCD monitors functioned by using two pieces of polarized glass with liquid crystal between them. A backlight would shine through the first piece of polarized glass (also known as substrate). Electrical currents would then cause the liquid crystals to adjust how much light passes through to the second substrate, which creates the images that are displayed. (The Evolution of the Monitor) The average resolution would increase to 1920x1080 pixels and the refresh rate would increase to 60 frames a second around 2010. Nowadays, there are high end monitors that are capable of displaying up to 7,680 by 4,320 pixels, and also monitors that are capable of displaying up to 360 frames per second, assuming you have around $1,000 lying around. At long last, it had finished. My 40.02 gigabyte download of “DOOM: Eternal” had finally completed, and oh boy, I was ready to experience this. I ran over to my computer, my beautiful creation sporting 32 gigs of DDR4 ram, an AMD Ryzen 7 “3800x” with a base clock of 3.8 GHz, an Nvidia 2080ti, 750 gigabytes of SSD storage and two terabytes of HDD storage. Finally, after two years of waiting for this, I grabbed my mouse, and moved my cursor over that gorgeous button titled “Launch DOOM: Eternal”. Thanks to multiple advancements in the speed of CPUs, the size of ram and storage, and display resolution and refresh rate, “DooM” had evolved from an archaic, pixelated video game in 1993 into the beautiful, realistic and smooth video game it is today. And personally, I can’t wait to see what the future has in store for us.
How much would a Bitcoin node handling 1GB blocks cost today? I did some back-on-the-envelope calculations.
1GB blocks would be able to confirm more than 5000tx/s. That would be VISA-level scale (which handles, on average, 1736tx/s). We often hear that we shouldn't raise the blocksize because then nodes would become too expensive to run. But how expensive exactly? We have the following costs to take into account:
For now, I'm going to assume a non-pruned full node (i.e. a node that stores all transactions of the blockchain) for personal use, i.e. for a computer built at home. I'll add in the calculations for a pruned node at the end, which would likely be the prefered option for people who merely want to verify the blockchain for themselves. If you don't care about the assumptions and calculations, you can just jump right to the end of this post. If you spotted any error, please inform me and I'll update my calculation.
There's, on average, one block every 10 minutes, that is 144 every day and 4320 blocks every thirty days. I was able to find a 3TB HDD for $47,50 on Amazon, that is $0.018/GB. Storing all blocks with all transactions of a month (4320GB) would be $78.96/mo. Prices for storage halved from 2014 to 2017, so we can assume that to half in 2022, thus we can reasonably assume it'd cost around $40/mo. in 2022. But would such an inexpensive hard disk be able to keep up with writing all the data? I found a comparable cheap HDD which can write 127MB/s sequentially (which would be the writing mode of Bitcoin). That would be enough even for 76GB blocks! Edit: For the UTXO set, we need very fast storage for both reading and writing. Peter__R, in his comment below, estimates this to be 1TB for 4 billion users (which would make ~46,000tx/s if everyone would make 1tx/day, so id'd require about 10GB blocks). jtoomim seems more pessimistic on that front, he says that much of that has to be in RAM. I'll add the $315 I've calculated below to account for that (which would be rather optimistic, keep in mind).
Bandwidth is more complicated, because that can't just be shipped around like HDDs. I'll just take prices for my country, Germany, using the provider T-online, because I don't know how it works in the US. You can plug in your own numbers based on the calculations below. 1GB blocks/10 minute mean 1.7MB/s. However, this is an average, and we need some wiggle room for transaction spikes, for example at Christmas or Black Friday. VISA handles 150 million transactions per day, that is 1736tx/s, but can handle up to 24,000tx/s (source). So we should be able to handle 13.8x the average throughput, which would be 1.7MB/s x 13.8 = 23.46M/s, or 187.68Mbit/s. The plan on T-online for 250Mbit/s (translated) would be 54.95€/mo (plus setup minus a discount for the first 6 months which seems to cancel out so we'll ignore it), which would be $61.78/mo. This plan is an actual flatrate, so we don't have to worry about hitting any download limit. Note, however, that we don't order bandwidth for only our Bitcoin node, but also for personal use. If we only needed 2MB/s for personal use, the plan would be 34.95€, thus our node would actually only cost the difference of 20€ per month, or $22.50/mo. Nielsen's Law of Internet Bandwidth claims that a high-end user's connection speed grows by 50% per year. If we assume this is true for pricing too, the bandwidth cost for ~200Mbit/s/mo. would go down to 12.5% (forgot how exponential growth works)29.6% of its today's cost by 2022, which decreases our number to $2.81/mo.$6.66/mo. Edit: jtoomim, markblundeberg and CaptainPatent point out that the node would have a much higher bandwidth for announcing transactions and uploading historical blocks. In theory, it would not be necessary to do any of those things and still be able to verify one's own transactions, by never broadcasting any transactions. That would be quite leechy behaviour, though. If we were to pick a higher data plan to get 1000MBit/s downstream and 500MBit/s upstream, it would cost 119.95€/mo., however this plan isn't widely available yet (both links in German). 500MBit/s of upstream would give us max. 21 connected nodes at transaction spikes, or max. 294 connected nodes at average load. That would cost $39.85 in 2022 (with correct exponential growth).
CPU/Memory will be bought once and can then run for tens of years, so we'll count these as setup costs. The specs needed, of course, depend on the optimization of the node software, but we'll assume the current bottlenecks will have been removed once running a node actually becomes demanding hardware-wise. This paper establishes that a 2.4GHz Intel Westmere (Xeon E5620) CPU can verify 71000 signatures per second... which can be bought for $32.88 a pair on Ebay (note: this CPU is from Q1'10). We'd need to verify 76659tx/s at spikes (taking the 13.8x number), so that pair of CPUs (handle 142,000tx/s) seem to just fit right in (given one signature per tx). We'd also have to account for multiple signatures per transaction and all the other parts of verification of transactions, but it seems like the CPU costs are neglegible anyway if we don't buy the freshest hardware available. ~$100 at current prices seem reasonable. Given Moore's Law, we can assume that prices for CPUs half every two years (transistor count x1.4162), so in three years, the CPU(s) should cost around $35.22 ($100/1.4163). For memory, we again have to take into account the transaction spikes. If we're very unlucky, and transactions spike and there won't be a block for ~1h, the mempool can become very large. If we take the factor of 13.8x from above, and 1h of unconfirmed transactions (20,000,000tx usually, 276,000,000tx on spikes), we'd need 82.8GB (for 300B per transaction). I found 32GB of RAM (with ECC) for $106, so three of those give us 96GB of RAM for $318 and plenty remaining space for building hash trees, connection management and the operating system. Buying used hardware doesn't seem to decrease the cost significantly (we actually do need a lot of RAM, compared to CPU power). Price of RAM seems to decrease by a factor of x100 every 10 years (x1.58510), so we can expect 96GB to cost around $79.89 ($318/1.5853) in 2022. Of course, CPU and memory need to be compatible, which I haven't taken into account. Chug a mainboard (~$150) and a power supply (~$50) into the mix, and the total would be just over $600 for today's prices. Even if mainboard and power supply prices remain the same, we'd still only have to pay around $315 for the whole setup in 2022.
I found a comparable harddrive with 6W. We need N*6W, where N is the number of hardrives (17.28 per year).
Edit: We also need fast memory for the UTXO set, so we'll take some 3x NVMe SSDs for that (see below), which require 18.6W in total.
So we'd have 129W147.6W + N*6W. Electricity cost average at 12ct/kWh in the US, in Germany this is higher at 30.22ct/kWh. In the US, it would cost $11.14$12.75 + N*$0.52 (P*12ct/kWh / 1000 * 24h/day *30days / 100ct/$), in Germany 28.06€32.11€ + N*1.30€. At the end of the first year, it would cost $20.12$21.73/mo. in the US and 50.52€54.57€/mo. in Germany. At the end of the second year, it would cost $29.11$30.72/mo. for the US and 72.98€77.03€/mo. for Germany. It increases by $8.98/mo. per year in the US and by 22.46€/mo. per year in Germany. Electricity prices in Germany have increased over time due to increased taxation; in the US the price increase has been below inflation rate the last two decades. As it's difficult to predict price changes here, I'm going to assume prices will remain the same.
In summary, we get:
Storage: $78.96/mo., $40/mo in 2022, (E:) +$315 initially for NVMe SSDs
Bandwidth: $22.50/mo., $2.81/mo. $6.66/mo. in 2022, Edit: or $95.37/mo. for additional broadcasting, or $28.25/mo. in 2022 prices.
If we add everything up, for today's prices, we get (E: updated all following numbers, but only changed slightly) $132/mo. (US), $187/mo. (DE) for the second year and $71.92/mo. $78/mo. (US), $115.79/mo.$124/mo. (DE) in 2022. It definitely is quite a bit of money, but consider what that machine would actually do; it would basically do the equivalent of VISA's payment verification multiple times over, which is an amazing feat. Also, piano lessons cost around $50-$100 each, so if we consider a Bitcoin hobbyist, he would still pay much less for his hobby than a piano player, who'd pay about $400 per month. So it's entirely reasonable to assume that even if we had 1GB blocks, there would still be lots of people running full-nodes just so. How about pruned nodes? Here, we only have to store the Unspent Transaction Output Set (UTXO set), which currently clocks in at 2.8GB. If blocks get 1000 times bigger, we can assume the UTXO set to become 2.8TB. I'll assume ordinary HDD's aren't goint to cut it for reading/writing the UTXO set at that scale, so we'll take some NVMe SSDs for that, currently priced at $105/TB. Three of them would increase our setup by $315 to$915, but decrease our monthly costs. E: However this UTXO set is also required for the non-pruned node, therefore the setup costs stay at $915. Even in the highest power state, the 3 SSDs will need only 18.6W in total, so we'll get a constant 147.6W for the whole system. In total, this is:
New Storage: $0/mo.
Bandwidth: $22.50/mo., (E:) $6.66/mo. in 2022, Edit: or $95.37/mo. for additional broadcasting, or $28.25/mo. in 2022 prices. (same as above)
Electricity: $12.75/mo. (US), 32.11€/mo. (DE)
CPU: Initially $915
In total, this is $35.25/mo. in the US and $58.57/mo. in Germany for today's prices, or (E:) $19.41/mo. (US) and (E:) $42.73/mo. (DE) in 2022's prices. Which looks very affordable even for a non-hobbyist. E: spelling E²: I've added the 3 NVEe SSDs for the UTXO set, as pointed out by others and fixed an error with exponentials, as I figured out.
So that's what I have so far. I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm just sort of picking things based on price and reviews. I haven't paid attention to PC parts since the bitcoin mining drove gpu prices way up, so I have no idea what the benchmarks for the 2000 series are, I assume the 2070 super is probably pretty good. I mostly just want to be able to run anything at max settings 1080p 60fps, while not having to upgrade much (if at all) for at least a couple years. My main concerns with this build right now is whether or not I'm undeover paying for certain parts, or if certain parts are inadequate or bottlenecking the performance of others. Also, tips on other parts I may still need (excluding monitors/k+m). Being able to cut costs on stuff I don't need would great. Thanks in advance!
Geez, I'm middle aged now. Help me tweak my build.
I have a toddler now, and I can't completely re-educate myself for 2019 parts, so I'm hoping you all can help me figure out if/how I'm going wrong, or if I can get better value for money.
My rig from 2010 is on its last legs, and I'm looking to replace. (In case anyone's nostalgic, it's an i5-760//4GB//Radeon HD5800)
I don't want anyone to build this for me - I'm just looking for advice. My budget is in the 600-900 range. I'm not looking to max-out my budget, but I'd love to know if there are places where I can get better value for money. I'm in Connecticut. Keyboard, mouse, speakers, and monitor are separate. I'm fine on my own with that.
Use Case - probably pretty light. Productivity: I'd like to be able to either dual-monitor or use a 4k (not both at the same time). Gaming: Single monitor, 1080P, and not necessarily the latest and greatest. I'm a patient gamer, and considering my next game will be Axiom Verge or something N64-era. Overclocking is not expected. My toddler may end up using it for awhile, but I'm sure he'll need a new one by the time he's 8 or so.
Am I wasting money with both a 2200G AND dedicated graphics? If so, will the CPU be enough for me, or ought I go with a different chip/card combo?
I kind of guessed at the Graphics card, based on the stickied builds and number of reviews. I'm happy to hear suggestions.
Do I need a separate cooleheatsink? (judging from the stickied builds, no?) Does the CPU come with a stock one?
I could save a few bucks with a 0.25TB SSD. Meh, I'll go with 0.5TB.
I could probably go for 8GB memory, but 16GB may make it last longer.
HDD reliability is pretty important to me. Any insights on manufacturer reputations are very welcome.
Boring cases are fine.
Thanks to all for your help!
Edit: Learning to format.
Edit 2: Guys, GUYS! There's been a lot of really good suggestions here. Thanks to everyone.
But we're not maxing out the budget for the sake of it. Check out the use case - or the title! I gave up on current-level graphics and FPS games some time ago. I'm not paying $250 for a graphics card (or competing with BitCoin miners).
In fact, how far could I downgrade my graphics card, and still hit my targets for desktop apps (and still be able to do much older games)? For games, let's target: "I could ably play MineCraft without gameplay problems, but the graphics might be mid-level."
Upgraded the processor - thanks, dar! The 2600X was only $10 extra so I went with that. Changed the Storage solution to a SSD. - thanks lild. Changed PSU. - thanks lild. Removed Windows 10 - will look into that, but it's not something that needs to go into compatibility/performance discussions.
Please suggest alternate parts for new budget/midrange PC
My 10-year old gaming system has finally bit the dust after many years of loyal service. Worth knowing: -I don't play anything AAA. I have two young kids, and I just don't have time to devote to gaming anymore. I would like to play X-COM 2. -I have two hard drives I can salvage from the old one, because they're recent upgrades: A Micron 500GB SATA SSD and a WD 2 TB hard drive. -I'd also like to keep the two 5.25" drives I have: A DVD burner and Blu-Ray player. -It's in my bedroom, and my wife will be displeased with a ridiculous looking case, or a loud PC. No LEDs, please. That said, this is what I'm thinking. I'd like to keep it around $500-600, if I can. PCPartPicker Part List
What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better. Gaming (sometimes LAN party), running VMs for my small home lab, a Plex server, two bitcoin nodes, and so many Chrome tabs If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, framerate, game settings) 3440×[email protected] on Ultra settings if I'm hopeful What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? ~5000$ CAD In what country are you purchasing your parts? Canada Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please). PCPartPicker Part List
[META] New to PC Building? - September 2018 Edition
You've heard from all your gaming friends/family or co-workers that custom PCs are the way to go. Or maybe you've been fed up with your HP, Dell, Acer, Gateway, Lenovo, etc. pre-builts or Macs and want some more quality and value in your next PC purchase. Or maybe you haven't built a PC in a long time and want to get back into the game. Well, here's a good place to start.
Make a budget for your PC (e.g., $800, $1000, $1250, $1500, etc.).
Decide what you will use your PC for.
For gaming, decide what games and at what resolution and FPS you want to play at.
For productivity, decide what software you'll need and find the recommended specs to use those apps.
For a bit of both, your PC build should be built on the HIGHEST specs recommended for your applications (e.g., if you only play FortNite and need CPU power for CFD simulations, use specs recommended for CFD).
Here are some rough estimates for builds with entirely NEW parts: 1080p 60FPS ultra-settings modern AAA gaming: ~$1,200 1440p 60FPS high/ultra-settings modern AAA gaming: ~$1,600 1080p 144FPS ultra-settings modern AAA gaming: $2,000 4K 50FPS medium/high-settings modern AAA gaming: > $2,400 It's noted that some compromises (e.g., lower settings and/or resolution) can be made to achieve the same or slightly lower gaming experience within ±15% of the above prices. It's also noted that you can still get higher FPS on older or used PCs by lowering settings and/or resolution AND/OR buying new/used parts to upgrade your system. Make a new topic about it if you're interested. Also note that AAA gaming is different from e-sport games like CSGO, DOTA2, FortNite, HOTS, LoL, Overwatch, R6S, etc. Those games have lower requirements and can make do with smaller budgets.
Revise your budget AND/OR resolution and FPS until both are compatible. Compare this to the recommended requirements of the most demanding game on your list. For older games, you might be able to lower your budget. For others, you might have to increase your budget. It helps to watch gaming benchmarks on Youtube. A good example of what you're looking for is something like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eLxSOoSdjY). Take note of the resolution, settings, FPS, and the specs in the video title/description; ask yourself if the better gaming experience is worth increasing your budget OR if you're okay with lower settings and lowering your budget. Note that you won't be able to see FPS higher than 60FPS for Youtube videos; something like this would have to be seen in-person at a computer shop.
After procuring your parts, it's time to build. Use a good Youtube tutorial like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q) that teach BAPC fundamentals, but always refer to your product manuals or other Youtube tutorials for part-specific instructions like CPU mounting, radiator mounting, CMOS resetting, etc. If it everything still seems overwhelming, you can always pay a computer shop or a friend/family member to build it for you. It might also be smart to look up some first-time building mistakes to avoid:
If you have any other questions, use the search bar first. If it's not there, make a topic.
BAPC News (Last Updated - 2018/09/20)
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-9000-series-cpu-faq,37743.html Intel 9000 CPUs (Coffee Lake Refresh) will be coming out in Q4. With the exception of i9 (8-core, 12 threads) flagship CPUs, the i3, i5, and i7 lineups are almost identical to their Intel 8000 (Coffee Lake) series, but slightly clocked faster. If you are wondering if you should upgrade to the newer CPU on the same tier (e.g., i5-8400 to i5-9400), I don't recommend that you do as you will only see marginal performance increases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDrpsv0QIR0 RTX 2080 and 2080 Ti benchmarks are out; they provide ~10 and ~20 frames better than the 1080 Ti and also feature ray tracing (superior lighting and shadow effects) which is featured in only ~30 games so far (i.e., not supported a lot); effectively, they provide +25% more performance for +70% increased cost. My recommendation is NOT to buy them unless you need it for work or have lots of disposable income. GTX 1000 Pascal series are still relevant in today's gaming specs.
The calculator part. More GHz is analogous to fast fingers number crunching in the calculator. More cores is analogous to having more calculators. More threads is analogous to having more filing clerks piling more work for the calculator to do. Microarchitectures (core design) is analogous to how the internal circuit inside the calculator is designed (e.g., AMD FX series are slower than Intel equivalents even with higher OC'd GHz speeds because the core design is subpar). All three are important in determining CPU speed. In general, higher GHz is more important for gaming now whereas # cores and threads are more important for multitasking like streaming, video editing, and advanced scientific/engineering computations. Core designs from both AMD and Intel in their most recent products are very good now, but something to keep in mind.
The basic concept of overclocking (OCing) is to feed your CPU more power through voltage and hoping it does calculations faster. Whether your parts are good overclockers depends on the manufacturing process of your specific part and slight variations in materials and manufacturing process will result in different overclocking capability ("silicon lottery"). The downside to this is that you can void your warranties because doing this will produce excess heat that will decrease the lifespan of your parts AND that there is a trial-and-error process to finding OC settings that are stable. Unstable OC settings result in computer freezes or random shut-offs from excess heat. OCing will give you extra performance often for free or by investing in a CPU cooler to control your temperatures so that the excess heat will not decrease your parts' lifespans as much. If you don't know how to OC, don't do it.
Intel CPUs have higher GHz than AMD CPUs, which make them better for gaming purposes. However, AMD Ryzen CPUs have more cores and threads than their Intel equivalents. The new parts are AMD Ryzen 3, 5, or 7 2000 series or Intel i3, i5, or i7 8000 series (Coffee Lake). Everything else is outdated. If you want to overclock on an AMD system, know that you can get some moderate OC on a B350/B450 with all CPUs. X370/X470 mobos usually come with better VRMs meant for OCing 2600X, 2700, and 2700X. If you don't know how to OC, know that the -X AMD CPUs have the ability to OC themselves automatically without manually settings. For Intel systems, you cannot OC unless the CPU is an unlocked -K chip (e.g., i3-8350K, i5-8600K, i7-8700K, etc.) AND the motherboard is a Z370 mobo. In general, it is not worth getting a Z370 mobo UNLESS you are getting an i5-8600K and i7-8700K.
CPU and Mobo Compatibility
Note about Ryzen 2000 CPUs on B350 mobos: yes, you CAN pair them up since they use the same socket. You might get an error message on PCPP that says that they might not be compatible. Call the retailer and ask if the mobo you're planning on buying has a "Ryzen 2000 Series Ready" sticker on the box. This SHOULD NOT be a problem with any mobos manufactured after February 2018. Note about Intel 9000 CPUs on B360 / Z370 mobos: same as above with Ryzen 2000 CPUs on B350 or X370 boards.
CPU Cooler (Air / Liquid)
Air or liquid cooling for your CPU. This is mostly optional unless heavy OCing on AMD Ryzen CPUs and/or on Intel -K and i7-8700 CPUs. For more information about air and liquid cooling comparisons, see here:
Part that lets all the parts talk to each other. Comes in different sizes from small to big: mITX, mATX, ATX, and eATX. For most people, mATX is cost-effective and does the job perfectly. If you need more features like extra USB slots, go for an ATX. mITX is for those who want a really small form factor and are willing to pay a premium for it. eATX mobos are like ATX mobos except that they have more features and are bigger - meant for super PC enthusiasts who need the features.
AMD Ryzen CPUs: go for X470s for Ryzen 7 and B450s for everything else. B350s will also work as a sub for B450 mobos and the same can be said for X370s for X470s, but they are being phased out and may require a BIOS update to support the Ryzen 2000 CPUs if it doesn't have a "Ryzen 2000 Series Ready" sticker on the box.
Intel Coffee Lake CPUs: go for Z370s for unlocked -K CPUs and B360s for everything else.
If you are NOT OCing, pick whatever is cheap and meets your specs. I recommend ASUS or MSI because they have RMA centres in Canada in case it breaks whereas other parts are outside of Canada like in the US. If you are OCing, then you need to look at the quality of the VRMs because those will greatly influence the stability and lifespan of your parts.
Part that keeps Windows and your software active. Currently runs on the DDR4 platform for new builds. Go for dual channel whenever possible. Here's a breakdown of how much RAM you need:
2x4GB = 8GB is the minimum recommended
2x8GB = 16GB recommended for gaming
2x16GB+ for workstations
AMD Ryzen CPUs get extra FPS for faster RAM speeds (ideally 3200MHz) in gaming when paired with powerful video cards like the GTX 1070. Intel Coffee Lake CPUs use up a max of 2667MHz for B360 mobos. Higher end Z370 mobos can support 4000 - 4333MHz RAM depending on the mobo, so make sure you shop carefully! It's noted that RAM prices are highly inflated because of the smartphone industry and possibly artificial supply shortages. For more information: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/263031-ram-prices-roof-stuck-way
Part that store your files in the form of SSDs and HDDs.
Solid State Drives (SSDs)
SSDs are incredibly quick, but are expensive per TB; they are good for booting up Windows and for reducing loading times for gaming. For an old OEM pre-built, upgrading the PC with an SSD is the single greatest speed booster you can do to your system. For most people, you want to make sure the SSD you get is NOT DRAM-less as these SSDs do not last as long as their DRAM counterparts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybIXsrLCgdM). It is also noted that the bigger the capacity of the SSD, the faster they are. SSDs come in four forms:
2.5" SATA III
M.2 NVME PCI-e
The 2.5" SATA form is cheaper, but it is the old format with speeds up to 550MB/s. M.2 SATA SSDs have the same transfer speeds as 2.5" SATA SSDs since they use the SATA interface, but connect directly to the mobo without a cable. It's better for cable management to get an M.2 SATA SSD over a 2.5" SATA III SSD. M.2 PCI-e SSDs are the newest SSD format and transfer up to 4GB/s depending on the PCI-e lanes they use (e.g., 1x, 2x, 4x, etc.). They're great for moving large files (e.g., 4K video production). For more info about U.2 drives, see this post (https://www.reddit.com/bapccanada/comments/8jxfqs/meta_new_to_pc_building_may_2018_edition/dzqj5ks/). Currently more common for enterprise builds, but could see some usage in consumer builds.
Hard Disk Drives (HDDs)
HDDs are slow with transfer speeds of ~100MB/s, but are cheap per TB compared to SSDs. We are now at SATA III speeds, which have a max theoretical transfer rate of 600MB/s. They also come in 5400RPM and 7200RPM forms. 5400RPM uses slightly less power and are cheaper, but aren't as fast at dealing with a large number of small files as 7200RPM HDDs. When dealing with a small number of large files, they have roughly equivalent performance. It is noted that even a 10,000RPM HDD will still be slower than an average 2.5" SATA III SSD.
SSHDs are hybrids of SSDs and HDDs. Although they seem like a good combination, it's much better in all cases to get a dedicated SSD and a dedicated HDD instead. This is because the $/speed better for SSDs and the $/TB is better for HDDs. The same can be said for Intel Optane. They both have their uses, but for most users, aren't worth it.
I recommend a 2.5" or M.2 SATA ≥ 250GB DRAM SSD and a 1TB or 2TB 7200RPM HDD configuration for most users for a balance of speed and storage capacity.
Part that runs complex calculations in games and outputs to your monitor and is usually the most expensive part of the budget. The GPU you pick is dictated by the gaming resolution and FPS you want to play at. In general, all video cards of the same product name have almost the same non-OC'd performance (e.g., Asus Dual-GTX1060-06G has the same performance as the EVGA 06G-P4-6163-KR SC GAMING). The different sizes and # fans DO affect GPU OCing capability, however. The most important thing here is to get an open-air video card, NOT a blower video card (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0domMRFG1Rw). The blower card is meant for upgrading pre-builts where case airflow is limited. For cost-performance, go for the NVIDIA GTX cards because of the cryptomining industry that has inflated AMD RX cards. Bitcoin has taken a -20% hit since January's $10,000+ as of recently, but the cryptomining industry is still ongoing. Luckily, this means prices have nearly corrected itself to original MSRP in 2016. In general:
Part that houses your parts and protects them from its environment. Should often be the last part you choose because the selection is big enough to be compatible with any build you choose as long as the case is equal to or bigger than the mobo form factor. Things to consider: aesthetics, case airflow, cable management, material, cooling options (radiators or # of fan spaces), # fans included, # drive bays, toolless installation, power supply shroud, GPU clearance length, window if applicable (e.g., acrylic, tempered glass), etc. It is recommended to watch or read case reviews on Youtube to get an idea of a case's performance in your setup.
Part that runs your PC from the wall socket. Never go with an non-reputable/cheap brand out on these parts as low-quality parts could damage your other parts. Recommended branded PSUs are Corsair, EVGA, Seasonic, and Thermaltake, generally. For a tier list, see here (https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/).
Wattage depends on the video card chosen, if you plan to OC, and/or if you plan to upgrade to a more powerful PSU in the future. Here's a rule of thumb for non-OC wattages that meet NVIDIA's recommendations:
1050 Ti: 300W
1060 3GB/6GB: 400W
1070 / 1070 Ti: 500W
1080 Ti: 600W
There are also PSU wattage calculators that you can use to estimate your wattage. How much wattage you used is based on your PC parts, how much OCing you're doing, your peripherals (e.g., gaming mouse and keyboard), and how long you plan to leave your computer running, etc. It is noted that these calculators use conservative estimates, so use the outputted wattage as a baseline of how much you need. Here are the calculators (thanks, VitaminDeity).
Pick ONE calculator to use and use the recommended wattage, NOT recommended product, as a baseline of what wattage you need for your build. Note that Cooler Master and Seasonic use the exact calculator as Outervision. For more details about wattage, here are some reference videos:
You might also see some info about modularity (non-modular, semi-modular, or fully-modular). These describe if the cables will come connected to the PSU or can be separated of your own choosing. Non-modular PSUs have ALL of the cable connections attached to the PSU with no option to remove unneeded cables. Semi-modular PSUs have separate cables for HDDs/SSDs and PCI-e connectors, but will have CPU and mobo cables attached. Modular PSUs have all of their cables separate from each other, allowing you to fully control over cable management. It is noted that with decent cooling and airflow in your case, cable management has little effect on your temperatures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDCMMf-_ASE).
80+ Efficiency Ratings
As for ratings (80+, 80+ bronze, 80+ gold, 80+ platinum), these are the efficiencies of your PSU. Please see here for more information. If you look purely on electricity costs, the 80+ gold PSUs will be more expensive than 80+ bronze PSUs for the average Canadian user until a breakeven point of 6 years (assuming 8 hours/day usage), but often the better performance, longer warranty periods, durable build quality, and extra features like fanless cooling is worth the extra premium. In general, the rule of thumb is 80+ bronze for entry-level office PCs and 80+ gold for mid-tier or higher gaming/workstation builds. If the price difference between a 80+ bronze PSU and 80+ gold PSU is < 20%, get the 80+ gold PSU!
Warranties should also be looked at when shopping for PSUs. In general, longer warranties also have better PSU build quality. In general, for 80+ bronze and gold PSU units from reputable brands:
These guys are engineering experts who take apart PSUs, analyze the quality of each product, and provide an evaluation of the product. Another great website is http://www.orionpsudb.com/, which shows which PSUs are manufactured by different OEMs.
Operating System (OS)
The most common OS. You can download the ISO here (https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10). For instructions on how to install the ISO from a USB drive, see here (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/install-windows-from-a-usb-flash-drive) or watch a video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLfnuE1unS8). For most users, go with the 64-bit version. If you purchase a Windows 10 retail key (i.e., you buy it from a retailer or from Microsoft directly), keep in mind that you are able to transfer it between builds. So if you're building another PC for the 2nd, 3rd, etc. time, you can reuse the key for those builds PROVIDED that you deactivate your key before installing it on your new PC. These keys are ~$120. However, if you have an OEM key (e.g., pre-builts), that key is tied specifically to your mobo. If you ever decide to upgrade your mobo on that pre-built PC, you might have to buy a new Windows 10 license. For more information, see this post (https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/windows-10-oem-or-retail-3665849/). The cheaper Windows 10 keys you can find on Kinguin are OEM keys; activating and deactivating these keys may require phoning an automated Microsoft activation line. Most of these keys are legitimate and cost ~$35, although Microsoft does not intend for home users to obtain this version of it. Buyer beware. The last type of key is a volume licensing key. They are licensed in large volumes to corporate or commercial usage. You can find lots of these keys on eBay for ~$10, but if the IT department who manages these keys audit who is using these keys or if the number of activations have exceeded the number allotted on that one key, Microsoft could block that key and invalidate your license. Buyer beware. For more information on differentiating between all three types of keys, see this page (https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/49586-determine-if-windows-license-type-oem-retail-volume.html). If money is tight, you can get Windows 10 from Microsoft and use a trial version of it indefinitely. However, there will be a watermark in the bottom-right of your screen until you activate your Windows key.
If you're interested in using MacOS, look into Hackintosh builds. This will allow you to run MacOS to run on PC parts, saving you lots of money. These builds are pretty picky about part compatibility, so you might run into some headaches trying to go through with this. For more information, see the following links:
Please note that the cost-performance builds will change daily because PC part prices change often! Some builds will have excellent cost-performance one day and then have terrible cost-performance the next. If you want to optimize cost-performance, it is your responsibility to do this if you go down this route! Also, DO NOT PM me with PC build requests! It is in your best interests to make your own topic so you can get multiple suggestions and input from the community rather than just my own. Thanks again.
Here are some sample builds that are reliable, but may not be cost-optimized builds. These builds were created on September 9, 2018; feel free to "edit this part list" and create your own builds.
Updated sample builds to include both AMD and Intel builds
Sorry for the lack of updates. I recently got a new job where I work 12 hours/day for 7 days at a time out of the city. What little spare time I have is spent on grad school and the gym instead of gaming. So I've been pretty behind on the news and some might not be up-to-date as my standards would have been with less commitments. If I've made any mistakes, please understand it might take a while for me to correct them. Thank you!
Budget ~£400, but is flexible. If there is a good deal for more or less then great!
Open to buying used parts - I think retired bitcoin mining GPUs can be coming on sale cheap now?
I'm not going to be doing any video editing or rendering or anything.
I think I want to be upgrading my GPU and SSD, but I'm not sure if this would mean that I need up update my mobo/psu/cooler too. If something else is the bottleneck here, or you need any other information, please let me know! My current setup looks like this: PCPartPicker Part List
Please give my new parts a once over and give me a green light? Not confident in my own research
Important note: I already have most of these pieces from an old build, only the CPU cooler and MB are new, those are the two parts I need advice on, everything else is locked in. I fried the MB while cleaning a few years back, and the cooler got lost in a move.
Have you read the sidebar and rules? (Please do) Yes What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better. Just gaming and emails. Very light, might run a Bitcoin node, but that's hardly anything. If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? (Screen resolution, framerate, game settings) I'm fine with 60fps, 1080p. I played TF2 for years, so my graphics standards are very low. Probably the most graphically intensive game I play is Overwatch. Otherwise Factorio, but that relies more on the CPU I think. What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? <$300 on just the MB and CPU cooler. With my current parts list it comes out to $259.52 In what country are you purchasing your parts? USA Post a draft of your potential build here (specific parts please). Consider formatting your parts list. Don't ask to be spoonfed a build (read the rules!). PCPartPicker Part List
Console gaming is hardly different from PC gaming, and much of what people say about PC gaming to put it above console gaming is often wrong.
I’m not sure about you, but for the past few years, I’ve been hearing people go on and on about PCs "superiority" to the console market. People cite various reasons why they believe gaming on a PC is “objectively” better than console gaming, often for reasons related to power, costs, ease-of-use, and freedom. …Only problem: much of what they say is wrong. There are many misconceptions being thrown about PC gaming vs Console gaming, that I believe need to be addressed. This isn’t about “PC gamers being wrong,” or “consoles being the best,” absolutely not. I just want to cut through some of the stuff people use to put down console gaming, and show that console gaming is incredibly similar to PC gaming. I mean, yes, this is someone who mainly games on console, but I also am getting a new PC that I will game on as well, not to mention the 30 PC games I already own and play. I’m not particularly partial to one over the other. Now I will mainly be focusing on the PlayStation side of the consoles, because I know it best, but much of what I say will apply to Xbox as well. Just because I don’t point out many specific Xbox examples, doesn’t mean that they aren’t out there.
“PCs can use TVs and monitors.”
This one isn’t so much of a misconception as it is the implication of one, and overall just… confusing. This is in some articles and the pcmasterrace “why choose a PC” section, where they’re practically implying that consoles can’t do this. I mean, yes, as long as the ports of your PC match up with your screen(s) inputs, you could plug a PC into either… but you could do the same with a console, again, as long as the ports match up. I’m guessing the idea here is that gaming monitors often use Displayport, as do most dedicated GPUs, and consoles are generally restricted to HDMI… But even so, monitors often have HDMI ports. In fact, PC Magazine has just released their list of the best gaming monitors of 2017, and every single one of them has an HDMI port. A PS4 can be plugged into these just as easily as a GTX 1080. I mean, even if the monitoTV doesn’t have HDMI or AV to connect with your console, just use an adaptor. If you have a PC with ports that doesn’t match your monitoTV… use an adapter. I don’t know what the point of this argument is, but it’s made a worrying amount of times.
“On PC, you have a wide range of controller options, but on console you’re stuck with the standard controller."
Are you on PlayStation and wish you could use a specific type of controller that suits your favorite kind of gameplay? Despite what some may believe, you have just as many options as PC. Want to play fighting games with a classic arcade-style board, featuring the buttons and joystick? Here you go! Want to get serious about racing and get something more accurate and immersive than a controller? Got you covered. Absolutely crazy about flying games and, like the racers, want something better than a controller? Enjoy! Want Wii-style motion controls? Been around since the PS3. If you prefer the form factor of the Xbox One controller but you own a PS4, Hori’s got you covered. And of course, if keyboard and mouse it what keeps you on PC, there’s a PlayStation compatible solution for that. Want to use the keyboard and mouse that you already own? Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Of course, these aren’t isolated examples, there are plenty of options for each of these kind of controllers. You don’t have to be on PC to enjoy alternate controllers.
“On PC you could use Steam Link to play anywhere in your house and share games with others.”
PS4 Remote play app on PC/Mac, PSTV, and PS Vita. PS Family Sharing. Using the same PSN account on multiple PS4s/Xbox Ones and PS3s/360s, or using multiple accounts on the same console. In fact, if multiple users are on the same PS4, only one has to buy the game for both users to play it on that one PS4. On top of that, only one of them has to have PS Plus for both to play online (if the one with PS Plus registers the PS4 as their main system). PS4 Share Play; if two people on separate PS4s want to play a game together that only one of them owns, they can join a Party and the owner of the game can have their friend play with them in the game. Need I say more?
“Gaming is more expensive on console.”
Part one, the Software This is one that I find… genuinely surprising. There’s been a few times I’ve mentioned that part of the reason I chose a PS4 is for budget gaming, only to told that “games are cheaper on Steam.” To be fair, there are a few games on PSN/XBL that are more expensive than they are on Steam, so I can see how someone could believe this… but apparently they forgot about disks. Dirt Rally, a hardcore racing sim game that’s… still $60 on all 3 platforms digitally… even though its successor is out.
See my point? Often times the game is cheaper on console because of the disk alternative that’s available for practically every console-available game. Even when the game is brand new. Dirt 4 - Remember that Dirt Rally successor I mentioned?
Yes, you could either buy this relatively new game digitally for $60, or just pick up the disk for a discounted price. And again, this is for a game that came out 2 months ago, and even it’s predecessor’s digital cost is locked at $60. Of course, I’m not going to ignore the fact that Dirt 4 is currently (as of writing this) discounted on Steam, but on PSN it also happens to be discounted for about the same amount. Part 2: the Subscription Now… let’s not ignore the elephant in the room: PS Plus and Xbox Gold. Now these would be ignorable, if they weren’t required for online play (on the PlayStation side, it’s only required for PS4, but still). So yes, it’s still something that will be included in the cost of your PS4 or Xbox One/360, assuming you play online. Bummer, right? Here’s the thing, although that’s the case, although you have to factor in this $60 cost with your console, you can make it balance out, at worst, and make it work out for you as a budget gamer, at best. As nice as it would be to not have to deal with the price if you don’t want to, it’s not like it’s a problem if you use it correctly. Imagine going to a new restaurant. This restaurant has some meals that you can’t get anywhere else, and fair prices compared to competitors. Only problem: you have to pay a membership fee to have the sides. Now you can have the main course, sit down and enjoy your steak or pasta, but if you want to have a side to have a full meal, you have to pay an annual fee. Sounds shitty, right? But here’s the thing: not only does this membership allow you to have sides with your meal, but it also allows you to eat two meals for free every month, and also gives you exclusive discounts for other meals, drinks, and desserts. Let’s look at PS Plus for a minute: for $60 per year, you get:
2 free PS4 games, every month
2 free PS3 games, every month
1 PS4/PS3 and Vita compatible game, and 1 Vita-only game, every month
Exclusive/Extended discounts, especially during the weekly/seasonal sales (though you don’t need PS Plus to get sales, PS Plus members get to enjoy the best sales)
access to online multiplayer
So yes, you’re paying extra because of that membership, but what you get with that deal pays for it and then some. In fact, let’s ignore the discounts for a minute: you get 24 free PS4 games, 24 free PS3 games, and 12 Vita only + 12 Vita compatible games, up to 72freegames every year. Even if you only one of these consoles, that’s still 24 free games a year. Sure, maybe you get games for the month that you don’t like, then just wait until next month. In fact, let’s look at Just Cause 3 again. It was free for PS Plus members in August, which is a pretty big deal. Why is this significant? Because it’s, again, a $60 digital game. That means with this one download, you’ve balanced out your $60 annual fee. Meaning? Every free game after that is money saved, every discount after that is money saved. And this is a trend: every year, PS Plus will release a game that balances out the entire service cost, then another 23 more that will only add icing to that budget cake. Though, you could just count games as paying off PS Plus until you hit $60 in savings, but still. All in all, PS Plus, and Xbox Gold which offers similar options, saves you money. On top of that, again, you don't need to have these to get discounts, but with these memberships, you get more discounts. Now, I’ve seen a few Steam games go up for free for a week, but what about being free for an entire month? Not to mention that; even if you want to talk about Steam Summer Sales, what about the PSN summer sale, or again, disc sale discounts? Now a lot of research and math would be needed to see if every console gamer would save money compared to every Steam gamer for the same games, but at the very least? The costs will balance out, at worst. Part 3, the Systems
Xbox and PS2: $299
Xbox 360 and PS3: $299 and $499, respectively
Xbox One and PS4: $499 and $399, respectively.
Rounded up a few dollars, that’s $1,000 - $1,300 in day-one consoles, just to keep up with the games! Crazy right? So called budget systems, such a rip-off. Well, keep in mind that the generations here aren’t short. The 6th generation, from the launch of the PS2 to the launch of the next generation consoles, lasted 5 years, 6 years based on the launch of the PS3 (though you could say it was 9 or 14, since the Xbox wasn’t discontinued until 2009, and the PS2 was supported all the way to 2014, a year after the PS4 was released). The 7th gen lasted 7 - 8 years, again depending on whether you count the launch of the Xbox 360 to PS3. The 8th gen so far has lasted 4 years. That’s 17 years that the console money is spread over. If you had a Netflix subscription for it’s original $8 monthly plan for that amount of time, that would be over $1,600 total. And let’s be fair here, just like you could upgrade your PC hardware whenever you wanted, you didn’t have to get a console from launch. Let’s look at PlayStation again for example: In 2002, only two years after its release, the PS2 retail price was cut from $300 to $200. The PS3 Slim, released 3 years after the original, was $300, $100-$200 lower than the retail cost. The PS4? You could’ve either gotten the Uncharted bundle for $350, or one of the PS4 Slim bundles for $250. This all brings it down to $750 - $850, which again, is spread over a decade and a half. This isn’t even counting used consoles, sales, or the further price cuts that I didn’t mention. Even if that still sounds like a lot of money to you, even if you’re laughing at the thought of buying new systems every several years, because your PC “is never obsolete,” tell me: how many parts have you changed out in your PC over the years? How many GPUs have you been through? CPUs? Motherboards? RAM sticks, monitors, keyboards, mice, CPU coolers, hard drives— that adds up. You don’t need to replace your entire system to spend a lot of money on hardware. Even if you weren’t upgrading for the sake of upgrading, I’d be amazed if the hardware you’ve been pushing by gaming would last for about 1/3 of that 17 year period. Computer parts aren’t designed to last forever, and really won’t when you’re pushing them with intensive gaming for hours upon hours. Generally speaking, your components might last you 6-8 years, if you’ve got the high-end stuff. But let’s assume you bought a system 17 years ago that was a beast for it’s time, something so powerful, that even if it’s parts have degraded over time, it’s still going strong. Problem is: you will have to upgrade something eventually. Even if you’ve managed to get this far into the gaming realm with the same 17 year old hardware, I’m betting you didn’t do it with a 17 year Operating System. How much did Windows 7 cost you? Or 8.1? Or 10? Oh, and don’t think you can skirt the cost by getting a pre-built system, the cost of Windows is embedded into the cost of the machine (why else would Microsoft allow their OS to go on so many machines). Sure, Windows 10 was a free upgrade for a year, but that’s only half of it’s lifetime— You can’t get it for free now, and not for the past year. On top of that, the free period was an upgrade; you had to pay for 7 or 8 first anyway. Point is, as much as one would like to say that they didn’t need to buy a new system every so often for the sake of gaming, that doesn’t mean they haven’t been paying for hardware, and even if they’ve only been PC gaming recently, you’ll be spending money on hardware soon enough.
“PC is leading the VR—“
Let me stop you right there. If you add together the total number of Oculus Rifts and HTC Vives sold to this day, and threw in another 100,000 just for the sake of it, that number would still be under the number of PSVR headsets sold. Why could this possibly be? Well, for a simple reason: affordability. The systems needed to run the PC headsets costs $800+, and the headsets are $500 - $600, when discounted. PSVR on the other hand costs $450 for the full bundle (headset, camera, and move controllers, with a demo disc thrown in), and can be played on either a $250 - $300 console, or a $400 console, the latter recommended. Even if you want to say that the Vive and Rift are more refined, a full PSVR set, system and all, could cost just over $100 more than a Vive headset alone. If anything, PC isn’t leading the VR gaming market, the PS4 is. It’s the system bringing VR to the most consumers, showing them what the future of gaming could look like. Not to mention that as the PlayStation line grows more powerful (4.2 TFLOP PS4 Pro, 10 TFLOP “PS5…”), it won’t be long until the PlayStation line can use the same VR games as PC. Either way, this shows that there is a console equivalent to the PC VR options. Sure, there are some games you'd only be able to play on PC, but there are also some games you'd only be able to play on PSVR. …Though to be fair, if we’re talking about VR in general, these headsets don’t even hold a candle to, surprisingly, Gear VR.
“If it wasn’t for consoles holding devs back, then they would be able to make higher quality games.”
This one is based on the idea that because of how “low spec” consoles are, that when a developer has to take them in mind, then they can’t design the game to be nearly as good as it would be otherwise. I mean, have you ever seen the minimum specs for games on Steam? GTA V
Actually, bump up all the memory requirements to 8 GBs, and those are some decent specs, relatively speaking. And keep in mind these are the minimum specs to even open the games. It’s almost as if the devs didn’t worry about console specs when making a PC version of the game, because this version of the game isn’t on console. Or maybe even that the consoles aren’t holding the games back that much because they’re not that weak. Just a hypothesis. But I mean, the devs are still ooobviously having to take weak consoles into mind right? They could make their games sooo much more powerful if they were PC only, right? Right? No. Not even close. iRacing
CPU: Intel Core i3, i5, i7 or better or AMD Bulldozer or better
Memory: 8 GB RAM
GPU: NVidia GeForce 2xx series or better, 1GB+ dedicated video memory / AMD 5xxx series or better, 1GB+ dedicated video memory
These are PC only games. That’s right, no consoles to hold them back, they don’t have to worry about whether an Xbox One could handle it. Yet, they don’t require anything more than the Multiplatform games. Subnautica
So what’s the deal? Theoretically, if developers don’t have to worry about console specs, then why aren’t they going all-out and making games that no console could even dream of supporting? Low-end PCs. What, did you think people only game on Steam if they spent at least $500 on gaming hardware? Not all PC gamers have gaming-PC specs, and if devs close their games out to players who don’t have the strongest of PCs, then they’d be losing out on a pretty sizable chunk of their potential buyers. Saying “devs having to deal with consoles is holding gaming back” is like saying “racing teams having to deal with Ford is holding GT racing back.” A: racing teams don’t have to deal with Ford if they don’t want to, which is probably why many of them don’t, and B: even though Ford doesn’t make the fastest cars overall, they still manage to make cars that are awesome on their own, they don’t even need to be compared to anything else to know that they make good cars. I want to go back to that previous point though, developers having to deal with low-end PCs, because it’s integral to the next point:
“PCs are more powerful, gaming on PC provides a better experience.”
This one isn’t so much of a misconception as it is… misleading. Did you know that according to the Steam Hardware & Software Survey (July 2017) , the percentage of Steam gamers who use a GPU that's less powerful than that of a PS4Slim’s GPU is well over 50%? Things get dismal when compared to the PS4 Pro (Or Xbox One X). On top of that, the percentage of PC gamers who own a Nvidia 10 series card is about 20% (about 15% for the 1060, 1080 and 1070 owners). Now to be fair, the large majority of gamers have CPUs with considerably high clock speeds, which is the main factor in CPU gaming performance. But, the number of Steam gamers with as much RAM or more than a PS4 or Xbox One is less than 50%, which can really bottleneck what those CPUs can handle. These numbers are hardly better than they were in 2013, all things considered. Sure, a PS3/360 weeps in the face of even a $400 PC, but in this day in age, consoles have definitely caught up. Sure, we could mention the fact that even 1% of Steam accounts represents over 1 million accounts, but that doesn’t really matter compared to the 10s of millions of 8th gen consoles sold; looking at it that way, sure the number of Nvidia 10 series owners is over 20 million, but that ignores the fact that there are over 5 times more 8th gen consoles sold than that. Basically, even though PCs run on a spectrum, saying they're more powerful “on average” is actually wrong. Sure, they have the potential for being more powerful, but most of the time, people aren’t willing to pay the premium to reach those extra bits of performance. Now why is this important? What matters are the people who spent the premium cost for premium parts, right? Because of the previous point: PCs don’t have some ubiquitous quality over the consoles, developers will always have to keep low-end PCs in mind, because not even half of all PC players can afford the good stuff, and you have to look at the top quarter of Steam players before you get to PS4-Pro-level specs. If every Steam player were to get a PS4 Pro, it would be an upgrade for over 60% of them, and 70% of them would be getting an upgrade with the Xbox One X. Sure, you could still make the argument that when you pay more for PC parts, you get a better experience than you could with a console. We can argue all day about budget PCs, but a console can’t match up to a $1,000 PC build. It’s the same as paying more for car parts, in the end you get a better car. However, there is a certain problem with that…
“You pay a little more for a PC, you get much more quality.”
The idea here is that the more you pay for PC parts, the performance increases at a faster rate than the price does. Problem: that’s not how technology works. Paying twice as much doesn’t get you twice the quality the majority of the time. For example, let’s look at graphics cards, specifically the GeForce 10 series cards, starting with the GTX 1050.
1.35 GHz base clock
2 GB VRAM
This is our reference, our basis of comparison. Any percentages will be based on the 1050’s specs. Now let’s look at the GTX 1050 Ti, the 1050’s older brother.
1.29 GHz base clock
4 GB VRAM
This is pretty good. You only increase the price by about 27%, and you get an 11% increase in floating point speed and a 100% increase (double) in VRAM. Sure you get a slightly lower base clock, but the rest definitely makes up for it. In fact, according to GPU boss, the Ti managed 66 fps, or a 22% increase in frame rate for Battlefield 4, and a 54% increase in mHash/second in bitcoin mining. The cost increase is worth it, for the most part. But let’s get to the real meat of it; what happens when we double our budget? Surely we should see a massive increase performance, I bet some of you are willing to bet that twice the cost means more than twice the performance. The closest price comparison for double the cost is the GTX 1060 (3 GB), so let’s get a look at that.
1.5 GHz base clock
3 GB VRAM
Well… not substantial, I’d say. About a 50% increase in floating point speed, an 11% increase in base clock speed, and a 1GB decrease in VRAM. For [almost] doubling the price, you don’t get much. Well surely raw specs don’t tell the full story, right? Well, let’s look at some real wold comparisons. Once again, according to GPU Boss, there’s a 138% increase in hashes/second for bitcoin mining, and at 99 fps, an 83% frame rate increase in Battlefield 4. Well, then, raw specs does not tell the whole story! Here’s another one, the 1060’s big brother… or, well, slightly-more-developed twin.
1.5 GHz base clock
6 GB VRAM
Seems reasonable, another $50 for a decent jump in power and double the memory! But, as we’ve learned, we shouldn’t look at the specs for the full story. I did do a GPU Boss comparison, but for the BF4 frame rate, I had to look at Tom’s Hardware (sorry miners, GPU boss didn’t cover the mHash/sec spec either). What’s the verdict? Well, pretty good, I’d say. With 97 FPS, a 79% increase over the 1050— wait. 97? That seems too low… I mean, the 3GB version got 99. Well, let’s see what Tech Power Up has to say... 94.3 fps. 74% increase. Huh. Alright alright, maybe that was just a dud. We can gloss over that I guess. Ok, one more, but let’s go for the big fish: the GTX 1080.
1.6 GHz base clock
8 GB VRAM
That jump in floating point speed definitely has to be something, and 4 times the VRAM? Sure it’s 5 times the price, but as we saw, raw power doesn’t always tell the full story. GPU Boss returns to give us the run down, how do these cards compare in the real world? Well… a 222% (over three-fold) increase in mHash speed, and a 218% increase in FPS for Battlefield 4. That’s right, for 5 times the cost, you get 3 times the performance. Truly, the raw specs don’t tell the full story. You increase the cost by 27%, you increase frame rate in our example game by 22%. You increase the cost by 83%, you increase the frame rate by 83%. Sounds good, but if you increase the cost by 129%, and you get a 79% (-50% cost/power increase) increase in frame rate. You increase it by 358%, and you increase the frame rate by 218% (-140% cost/power increase). That’s not paying “more for much more power,” that’s a steep drop-off after the third cheapest option. In fact, did you know that you have to get to the 1060 (6GB) before you could compare the GTX line to a PS4 Pro? Not to mention that at $250, the price of a 1060 (6GB) you could get an entire PS4 Slim bundle, or that you have to get to the 1070 before you beat the Xbox One X. On another note, let’s look at a PS4 Slim…
800 MHz base clock
8 GB VRAM
…Versus a PS4 Pro.
911 MHz base clock
8 GB VRAM
128% increase in floating point speed, 13% increase in clock speed, for a 25% difference in cost. Unfortunately there is no Battlefield 4 comparison to make, but in BF1, the frame rate is doubled (30 fps to 60) and the textures are taken to 11. For what that looks like, I’ll leave it up to this bloke. Not to even mention that you can even get the texture buffs in 4K. Just like how you get a decent increase in performance based on price for the lower-cost GPUs, the same applies here. It’s even worse when you look at the CPU for a gaming PC. The more money you spend, again, the less of a benefit you get per dollar. Hardware Unboxed covers this in a video comparing different levels of Intel CPUs. One thing to note is that the highest i7 option (6700K) in this video was almost always within 10 FPS (though for a few games, 15 FPS) of a certain CPU in that list for just about all of the games. …That CPU was the lowest i3 (6100) option. The lowest i3 was $117 and the highest i7 was $339, a 189% price difference for what was, on average, a 30% or less difference in frame rate. Even the lowest Pentium option (G4400, $63) was often able to keep up with the i7. The CPU and GPU are usually the most expensive and power-consuming parts of a build, which is why I focused on them (other than the fact that they’re the two most important parts of a gaming PC, outside of RAM). With both, this “pay more to get much more performance” idea is pretty much the inverse of the truth.
“The console giants are bad for game developers, Steam doesn't treat developers as bad as Microsoft or especially Sony.”
Now one thing you might’ve heard is that the PS3 was incredibly difficult for developers to make games for, which for some, fueled the idea that console hardware is difficult too develop on compared to PC… but this ignores a very basic idea that we’ve already touched on: if the devs don’t want to make the game compatible with a system, they don’t have to. In fact, this is why Left 4 Dead and other Valve games aren’t on PS3, because they didn’t want to work with it’s hardware, calling it “too complex.” This didn’t stop the game from selling well over 10 million units worldwide. If anything, this was a problem for the PS3, not the dev team. This also ignores that games like LittleBigPlanet, Grand Theft Auto IV, and Metal Gear Solid 4 all came out in the same year as Left 4 Dead (2008) on PS3. Apparently, plenty of other dev teams didn’t have much of a problem with the PS3’s hardware, or at the very least, they got used to it soon enough. On top of that, when developing the 8th gen consoles, both Sony and Microsoft sought to use CPUs that were easier for developers, which included making decisions that considered apps for the consoles’ usage for more than gaming. On top of that, using their single-chip proprietary CPUs is cheaper and more energy efficient than buying pre-made CPUs and boards, which is far better of a reason for using them than some conspiracy about Sony and MS trying to make devs' lives harder. Now, console exclusives are apparently a point of contention: it’s often said that exclusive can cause developers to go bankrupt. However, exclusivity doesn’t have to be a bad thing for the developer. For example, when Media Molecule had to pitch their game to a publisher (Sony, coincidentally), they didn’t end up being tied into something detrimental to them. Their initial funding lasted for 6 months. From then, Sony offered additional funding, in exchange for Console Exclusivity. This may sound concerning to some, but the game ended up going on to sell almost 6 million units worldwide and launched Media Molecule into the gaming limelight. Sony later bought the development studio, but 1: this was in 2010, two years after LittleBigPlanet’s release, and 2: Media Molecule seem pretty happy about it to this day. If anything, signing up with Sony was one of the best things they could’ve done, in their opinion. Does this sound like a company that has it out for developers? There are plenty of examples that people will use to put Valve in a good light, but even Sony is comparatively good to developers.
“There are more PC gamers.”
The total number of active PC gamers on Steam has surpassed 120 million, which is impressive, especially considering that this number is double that of 2013’s figure (65 million). But the number of monthly active users on Xbox Live and PSN? About 120 million (1, 2) total. EDIT: You could argue that this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, sure, so if you want to, say, compare the monthly number of Steam users to console? Steam has about half of what consoles do, at 67 million. Now, back to the 65 million total user figure for Steam, the best I could find for reference for PlayStation's number was an article giving the number of registered PSN accounts in 2013, 150 million. In a similar 4-year period (2009 - 2013), the number of registered PSN accounts didn’t double, it sextupled, or increased by 6 fold. Considering how the PS4 is already at 2/3 of the number of sales the PS3 had, even though it’s currently 3 years younger than its predecessor, I’m sure this trend is at least generally consistent. For example, let’s look at DOOM 2016, an awesome faced-paced shooting title with graphics galore… Of course, on a single platform, it sold best on PC/Steam. 2.36 million Steam sales, 2.05 million PS4 sales, 1.01 million Xbox One sales. But keep in mind… when you add the consoles sales together, you get over 3 million sales on the 8th gen systems. Meaning: this game was best sold on console. In fact, the Steam sales have only recently surpassed the PS4 sales. By the way VG charts only shows sales for physical copies of the games, so the number of PS4 and Xbox sales, when digital sales are included, are even higher than 3 million. This isn’t uncommon, by the way. Even with the games were the PC sales are higher than either of the consoles, there generally are more console sales total. But, to be fair, this isn’t anything new. The number of PC gamers hasn’t dominated the market, the percentages have always been about this much. PC can end up being the largest single platform for games, but consoles usually sell more copies total. EDIT: There were other examples but... Reddit has a 40,000-character limit.
This isn’t to say that there’s anything wrong with PC gaming, and this isn’t to exalt consoles. I’m not here to be the hipster defending the little guy, nor to be the one to try to put down someone/thing out of spite. This is about showing that PCs and consoles are overall pretty similar because there isn’t much dividing them, and that there isn’t anything wrong with being a console gamer. There isn’t some chasm separating consoles and PCs, at the end of the day they’re both computers that are (generally) designed for gaming. This about unity as gamers, to try to show that there shouldn’t be a massive divide just because of the computer system you game on. I want gamers to be in an environment where specs don't separate us; whether you got a $250 PS4 Slim or just built a $2,500 gaming PC, we’re here to game and should be able to have healthy interactions regardless of your platform. I’m well aware that this isn’t going to fix… much, but this needs to be said: there isn’t a huge divide between the PC and consoles, they’re far more similar than people think. There are upsides and downsides that one has that the other doesn’t on both sides. There’s so much more I could touch on, like how you could use SSDs or 3.5 inch hard drives with both, or that even though PC part prices go down over time, so do consoles, but I just wanted to touch on the main points people try to use to needlessly separate the two kinds of systems (looking at you PCMR) and correct them, to get the point across. I thank anyone who takes the time to read all of this, and especially anyone who doesn’t take what I say out of context. I also want to note that, again, thisisn’t “anti-PC gamer.” If it were up to me, everyone would be a hybrid gamer. Cheers.
Hi guys im thinking of upgrading my PC but im unsure if i should go with a new build from scratch or just upgrade to a more recent High-End GPU? This rig is used as a media center for gaming, movies, music, web browsing, etc, so no video editing or bitcoin mining or whatever. Current build: i5-4670k @ 4.4 Ghz R9 290x @ 1200 Core / 1450 Memory 2x4Gb DDR3 RAM ASRock Z87 Extreme 6 Seasonic Prime Platinum 750W Win 7 x64 (duh) Im thinking of upgrading to either a 1080 or 1080 TI (is the TI worth an extra 150€ over the standart one? Or maybe an AMD equivalent?) and either adding another 2x4Gb sticks or replacing the current ones with 2x8Gb sticks (Dual Channel vs Quad Channel?). Or should i rather build a new i7/AMD equivalent DDR4 build from scratch? I build this rig about 5 years ago so im completely out of the loop of whats "in" right now. Budget can be stretched to ~ 1000€ if i save up a couple more months. EDIT: Thanks to all of you, ill hold off on upgrading till the prices drop. I though it was strange that the 1070 ran for 600€+ when just a couple of months ago i bought one for my mate for just 350€.
well I got some stuff to sell, shipping included unless local only (80023 broomfield co), prices obo but I may not budge much depending on the item. -----wanted----- paypal local cash bitcoin, ether, zcash -----will only consider if it is a trade or amazing deal as my budget is short till i sell more----- RX 480 RX 470 r9 290(x) r9 390(x) fury(x) 295 x2 pro duo other computer related stuff. -----items----- 2x evga gtx 980ti- $325 or $600 for both + hbw sli bridge (both acx 2.0+ one sc+)(would entertain trades for nice amd cards+cash)(would love to trade for highend amd card +cash or multiple cards) ASUS HD 7850- $65 (never oc'ed light mining)(have a second one that has no display and a slight fan rattle that works for crossfire or mining -$45) R9 270x- $75 replaced fan with 80mm delta. stays extremely cool and isn't overwhelmingly load (small OC, mined on) Amd Firepro S7000 -AS IS- $80 beast of a workstation card and fairly rare it overclocked higher then any comparable chip I own. I believe I have pinpointed the issue (check pics) but I dont have the time or supplies to fix it once again sold as-is no returns I can go more in depth on request. MSI Eclipse Plus X58 LGA 1366 motherboard- $120 (not much to say grab a nice cpu and oc it :D ) now for the 64bit phone case+a phone the case has a Jetway PICO NP93-2930 computer with a intel N2930 quad core 1.83 ghz cpu. it also has 2 gigs ddr3 ram and a 128 gig msata ssd. Additionally, it has a voltage converter and a lipoly low voltage cut-off with cuttof it opperates from 12.5v ish to 11v will include 1000 mah 3 cell lipo. the phone is a Chinese generic android. Im only selling this because I switched to a 64 bit zenfone 2 for the sake of portability but honestly this ran windows WAY better then the zenfone does. has 2012 server on it atm. feel free to ask away. -$200 -----local only----- vizio m321i a2 monitosmart tv- $150 (1080p 120hz 32 inch this is the second one I have I currently use and enjoy the one on my main rig but I dont need 2 32 inch screens) lg 920p monitor-$40 (details on request) dell r900 server-$140 (4p 2.8ghz? 64 gigs ram additional details on request)( i also have another one missing cpu's raid controller a few fans and one of the two psu with only 48 gigs of ram i will let go for $80) 2x Cisco Pwr-rps2300 Redundant Power system-$40 each $60 for two (each includes 2 1150 watt power supplys) ?dell 2850?-$30 (sitting along time failed raid sold as is because of that) corsair cx 550m-$40 corsair ax 750-$60 some pics-http://imgur.com/a/uRQ8Z ---sold--- NIB Intel 5820k-sold gigabyte gtx 960-sold EVGA gtx 750 ti-sold asus gtx 770-sold r9 280x-sold r9 280-sold hd 7970-sold hd 7950-sold zotac gtx 980ti-sold 1 vizio m321i a2 monitor-sold Some BTC-sold
Ready to buy, looking for more feedback. R5 + 1070TI gaming rig.
First PC build. Very excited :)
Have you read the sidebar and rules? (Please do) Yep! What is your intended use for this build? The more details the better. Mostly gaming. Maybe a little bit of light twitch streaming and video editing on the side, but gaming is definitely the focus here. For the most part I do pretty light games like Rocket League, but I've been a backer for some more heavier games like Star Citizen for a while now and it'd be great to actually be able to play them. If gaming, what kind of performance are you looking for? Build includes a 144 Hz monitor, 1 ms response time. Hoping to be able to play more easy games (like Rocket League) on full quality with 144+ fps. For more heavy games, I'd prefer high quality but I won't be upset if I have to tinker settings down a little. What is your budget (ballpark is okay)? Would prefer to stay under $1100. I can go over (Up to around $1200) if the spec improvement is really worth it. In what country are you purchasing your parts? USA Post a draft of your potential build here. PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
Provide any additional details you wish below. Main questions are:
Will I need a dedicated fan for the CPU? I believe the R5 comes with its own, but is it enough? Will it still be enough if I want to OC a little?
Is the CPU/GPU/MoBo combo good? Hoping that nothing ends up being a big bottleneck.
I picked the cheapest 16GB memory I could find. Are there any catches that I'm missing? Pretty happy to get it for $100
The PSU came from a friend, who used it for a bitcoin ASIC rig in 2016. It's been collecting dust in his garage for a year and a half or so, but I don't see why it would impact performance. Wanting to confirm that it's ok to use it.
well I got some stuff to sell, shipping included unless local only (80023 broomfield co), prices obo but I may not budge much depending on the item. -----wanted----- paypal local cash bitcoin, ether, zcash -----will only consider if it is a trade or amazing deal as my budget is short till i sell more----- RX 480 RX 470 r9 290(x) r9 390(x) fury(x) 295 x2 pro duo other computer related stuff. -----items-----
2x evga gtx 980ti- sold for 600
ASUS HD 7850- $65 (never oc'ed light mining)(have a second one that has no display and a slight fan rattle that works for crossfire or mining -$45) R9 270x- $75 replaced fan with 80mm delta. stays extremely cool and isn't overwhelmingly load (small OC, mined on) Amd Firepro S7000 -AS IS- $80 beast of a workstation card and fairly rare it overclocked higher then any comparable chip I own. I believe I have pinpointed the issue (check pics) but I dont have the time or supplies to fix it once again sold as-is no returns I can go more in depth on request. MSI Eclipse Plus X58 LGA 1366 motherboard- $120 (not much to say grab a nice cpu and oc it :D ) now for the 64bit phone case+a phone the case has a Jetway PICO NP93-2930 computer with a intel N2930 quad core 1.83 ghz cpu. it also has 2 gigs ddr3 ram and a 128 gig msata ssd. Additionally, it has a voltage converter and a lipoly low voltage cut-off with cuttof it opperates from 12.5v ish to 11v will include 1000 mah 3 cell lipo. the phone is a Chinese generic android. Im only selling this because I switched to a 64 bit zenfone 2 for the sake of portability but honestly this ran windows WAY better then the zenfone does. has 2012 server on it atm. feel free to ask away. -$200 -----local only----- vizio m321i a2 monitosmart tv- $150 (1080p 120hz 32 inch this is the second one I have I currently use and enjoy the one on my main rig but I dont need 2 32 inch screens) lg 920p monitor-$40 (details on request) dell r900 server-$140 (4p 2.8ghz? 64 gigs ram additional details on request)( i also have another one missing cpu's raid controller a few fans and one of the two psu with only 48 gigs of ram i will let go for $80) 2x Cisco Pwr-rps2300 Redundant Power system-$40 each $60 for two (each includes 2 1150 watt power supplys) ?dell 2850?-$30 (sitting along time failed raid sold as is because of that) corsair cx 550m-$40 corsair ax 750-$60 some pics-http://imgur.com/a/uRQ8Z ---sold--- 2x evga gtx 980ti-sold NIB Intel 5820k-sold gigabyte gtx 960-sold EVGA gtx 750 ti-sold asus gtx 770-sold r9 280x-sold r9 280-sold hd 7970-sold hd 7950-sold zotac gtx 980ti-sold 1 vizio m321i a2 monitor-sold Some BTC-sold
(has been lying around for abit, failed raid sold as is because of that)
corsair cx 550m
corsair ax 750
corsair hx 750
all of the psu's
cx 550m, ax 750, hx 750, 600b
Sold Items Alienware m17x r4- sold ASUS HD 7850- sold Ballistix Sport 8GB Kit 4GBx2 DDR3- sold gtx 760- sold ASUS Z87-A- sold i7 4770k- sold MSI Eclipse Plus X58 LGA 1366 motherboard- sold 1x 7850-sold 2x evga gtx 980ti-sold NIB Intel 5820k-sold gigabyte gtx 960-sold EVGA gtx 750 ti-sold asus gtx 770-sold r9 280x-sold r9 280-sold hd 7970-sold hd 7950-sold zotac gtx 980ti-sold 1 vizio m321i a2 monitor-sold Some BTC-sold
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